Which Yuga?

An acquaintance recently pointed out that not all Vedic scholars agree that we are in the Kali Yuga, and that perhaps reference to the Kali Yuga is used too often by any of us folk to disguise plain old misanthropy, or on a wider scale as a recruiting pitch for cults. I had not known there was some disagreement on the Yuga, and found it interesting, and having looked around it would appear that some calculate we are in the ascending Dwapara Yuga. The Kali Yuga they say ended around the latter days of the 17th century.

Anyways here are a couple of articles discussing Dwapara Yuga...

David Frawley ~ https://vedanet.com/2012/06/13/secrets-of-the-yugas-or-world-ages/

And Sri Yukteswar's ideas ~https://www.ananda.org/ask/are-we-in-kali-yuga-or-dwapara-yuga/

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Science

Characteristics of Dwapara Yuga ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvapara_Yuga

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    • To be honest I could not say. Reading historically the years up to the late 17th century certainly were ones of general barbarity and depravity for many humans -so it would be possible to think of those times as the descending years of a Kali Yuga speaking in planetary terms. And since the age of enlightenment and reason (as they are called) there have definitely been improvements for many human lives. We are not as constantly in danger of being put to the sword or dying in our millions from plague in most places. On the other hand some places seem to still be struggling through dark ages and the planet as a whole is more fragile re weapons of mass destruction and environmental degradation and moral indifference. So there is evidence for different views.

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        • Yeah (sigh) I was just talking over the weekend with my husband about this very thing, Noct - the disturbing extremes we know exist on this planet, the poverty, the sexploitation, the madness - and we both agreed that it is difficult to know how to respond. It leads to a kind of crazy-making sensation when it comes to living in the world....you can be out and about and KNOW things are not as they seem, that we live off and alongside other people's suffering, and yet our choices are limited in terms of expressing that truth, which is the crazy-making thing. If you pipe up and say anything resembling the truth people in general hate it and think you are a doom-mongerer or a Debbie Downer and don't want to hear it, or the other choice is to say nothing and keep silent with it all inside and feeling more depersonalised and detached from what people seem to think is a ''real''life. And the final choice is when you meet someone who knows too, and you both can finish each others sentences, and you look at each other in a kind of mute despair that there seems to be almost zero you can do about it. I just have to blow off steam the odd time at home, with a small ''end of the world is nigh'' rant and then go wash the dishes. My husband is patient, thank God.

  • Four Cycles in keeping time of the shifting soul seasons.Wretched be the one who only keeps his/her eyes on the handmade watch that was made to measure the duration of the seasons, but forgot to follow the seasons and conclude that they themselves are parts of a full cycle.Time is a phenomenon due to consciousness.The mystery of Alpha and Omega is that it flows from within outward. Time is something created, a byproduct and not vice versa. Kali is confusion and conflicts.What a perfect assessment since it is reflecting the disagreements even around this matter.

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    • Yes, it seems to be the most intelligent approach to be more nuanced in an interpretation of Yugas, to consider Personal Yugas as well as the greater Macrocosmic cycles. The souls individual descending and ascending cycles, sort of like Campbell's Hero's myth. Which have nothing to do with time or ''the times'' as generally interpreted. One civilisation or household can blossom in the midst of wholescale barbarity, one soul can come to Christhood in the Gulag while all around them others experience Hell.

      I did not really begin to contemplate these more nuanced cycles until recent years, having simply not been prompted to think of it before. I wrote on one small aspect that occurred to me regarding personal yugas here. It was liberating to begin to realise that one is not bound helplessly to the outer/greater/planetary cycle. In the context of the conversation that sparked this post the phrase that touched me was how a projection of our own depression/misanthropy can prompt a casual dismissal of wider life and experience in terms like ''Oh yeah, but it's the Kali Yuga, man '' etc. It's really not, or at least it has to be contemplated - as you point out here - in  a more expanded and wiser context.

    • On a tangent, I got to musing... (meaning not arriving at this is so or no..)...

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      you have often mentioned time, and the expanded appreciation of it. To feel time in this way - the huger scale - naturally gives rise to expansion.. My personal inclination when I feel fettered is to expand space - to go towards perceiving infinite cosmic spaciousness, which also gives rise to expansion. (Tantra - includes the root word tanoti - to expand, stretch, to weave threads on a loom,) It occurred that either expanding time or space can operate as method for gnosis. Maybe one or other is more usual/preferable for male/female energy? That is what i thought. Anyways just passing ideas. It linked to something I'm reading where author mentions the intersection in Hermetic understanding of the science of analogy between mythology (which is TIME, past and future continuum) and typology (which is SPACE, above and below continuum.) And that these two forms or methods intersect to form the Cross symbol. 

      ps related edit - I found Tibetan word for tantra (gyud / rgyud) means continuum (space and time again)...and thread.

      lol okay I'll go do the groceries now...

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